I did not suppose we might be doing one other episode a couple of mass capturing so quickly. However right here we’re.

As a group.

That is from a vigil in Nashville.

Thanks to our artists for sharing the reward of music. You’re the custodians of that particular reward.

I have been to this place, and I do not imply some form of memorial after a mass capturing, however Nashville particularly. I lived there for a number of years overlaying the South, and it isn’t an enormous metropolis. It is dominant industries of music and publishing could make it really feel even smaller, like everybody is aware of everybody. So when First Woman Jill Biden visited the town to attend a vigil for the capturing victims of the Covenant Faculty, it was an absolute given {that a} nation music artist can be there.

Will the circle be unbroken?

By and by, Lord, by and by.

That is Ketch Secor, founding member of the Grammy Award successful band Outdated Crow Medication Present. I did not even get an introduction on the vigil, however that is as a result of everybody within the crowd already is aware of who he’s, not only a well-known musician, however a member of their group and a dad or mum of two college aged children. In actual fact, the college his children attend in East Nashville, he co-founded it in 2016. It is referred to as the Episcopal Faculty of Nashville.

So I am sporting two completely different hats right here when a college capturing occurs in our city. It is each as a dad or mum and it is as someone who’s on the opposite aspect of the choose up line as nicely. When a rustic singer will get off the street, chances are high at 8:00 within the morning on Monday after the massive weekend, that man or gal is in line dropping their child off at a college in Nashville, Tennessee. In the case of your private home, it is completely different.

And the sky lowered within the sky.

Ketch Secor not too long ago wrote an op ed for The New York Occasions that caught our consideration. It was titled Nation Music Can Lead America Out of its Obsession with Weapons. In it, he requires nation musicians to talk candidly to their audiences about gun tradition. I wished to have him on the present to speak about that op ed, like, can nation music actually assist lead the U.S. out of a gun debate? And what are the stakes for a musician within the style if they really take a stand? And what’s it wish to dwell on the middle of all of it as a dad or mum, educator and musician in Nashville, Tennessee? That is the task. I am Audie Cornish.

The capturing on the Covenant Faculty form of prompted you to write down an op ed for The New York Occasions. However can you’re taking me again to that day slightly bit? The place have been you once you heard it taking place?

Positive it was on Monday, two weeks in the past, and it was at 10:13 within the morning. I bought a textual content message from our faculty legal professional saying, I am so sorry, and I had no thought what was happening. And prayer hand emoji is fascinating.

So getting an emoji like that or getting the compulsory “are you okay” that all of us begin to ship one another now when there is a capturing, particularly at a college, you are saying it it hits you in a spot of what? Panic. Worry. What? What do you are feeling?

It is. It is all of the above. It is. It is your children. It is another person’s children. You realize, the pinnacle of college was murdered. The connections between our faculty are very current, and it is as a group member in Nashville, this surprising realization. Oh, this factor that occurs in different cities has come to our city. And it is come not simply to our city, however to our youngsters, to our the place that’s most sacred.

And even to your nook of that world, Proper? Prefer it did not occur at a public college. It did not occur at an enormous college. It occurred at basically a small Christian main college. Proper. Which is what you what you based one, proper? It had connections.

Yeah. And our faculties are very completely different in that regard and serve completely different populations. Nonetheless, it you realize, we’re all the identical. We’re all each college, public, personal, constitution, each stripe is within the enterprise of believing that youngsters are our future and should be stewarded and beloved on and guided. And, you realize, that is an actual elemental precept for me.

Can I ask, how previous are your children and do they go to the college you based?

Yeah, they do. They usually’re 9 and 11.

So did the college you based this Episcopal college, did it go into lockdown? Sort of what what did you you all should do because of this?

No, the faculties adjoining to Covenant did, however the others in Nashville didn’t. And so the factor I believe that was so unhappy that first day was the message that went out saying your youngsters haven’t but been notified. The workers is aware of, the lecturers know, everyone is aware of, all of the dad and mom know, everyone is aware of however the children. And we will speak about it tomorrow. However we wished to provide the likelihood to speak about it first. So for those who can think about a choose up line, anyone who’s who’s been by a college capturing of their group is aware of, you realize, the choose up line that first day is filled with tears.

Proper. And for individuals who aren’t accustomed to how huge ups and drop offs work lately in faculties, there’s a line proper, the place like there are form of they’re chaperoning your child the actually to the curb and also you choose them up. There’s not identical to wandering out of the constructing the place I believe for those who have been a child within the nineties is what you grew up with. Yeah, it is hand at hand cross off.

That is proper, Audie. You could have children.

Effectively, the juxtaposition of youngsters filled with vibrant pleasure and life and fogeys filled with grief and disappointment coming collectively. This assembly to me was very highly effective.

That means you are standing on the curb ready to get your child. However each dad or mum’s face is simply drawn.

And each dad or mum is each instructor and simply, you realize, holding again tears as is each instructor. However each little one continues to really feel very secure. And but everyone knows as dad and mom that no little one is secure any longer as a result of this tragedy is in our yard. It is come to Nashville, it is come to us, to our youngsters.

I assume I wish to begin possibly with Wagon Wheel, as a result of if folks go to look you up, that is likely to be the primary music they study. And also you even write about it on this op ed. Inform me slightly bit about the place you have been in your profession once you wrote this.

Positive. Effectively, Wagon Wheel is my most profitable music.

Headed down South to the Land of the Pines. I am coming my method to North Carolina, staring up.

And it is a collaboration with Bob Dylan. I wrote it after I was about 17, going to high school up in New England in a prep college referred to as Exeter, and I used to be had simply discovered to play the banjo up there.

So rock me mama like a wagon wheel. Rock me mama, any means you are feeling. Hey mama rock me

You speak about the concept that your finest identified music, Wagon Wheel, is commonly blasting out of a truck, so to talk, that has an NRA sticker. And also you point out this particularly, and I need you to speak about why.

If you make the form of music that I make with a fiddle and a banjo and concord singing and a specific fashion of songwriting, you are partaking in a group that is likely to be completely different than your individual type of background, and it isn’t. Effectively, there is a prepare going by proper now. That is type of proof..

I bear in mind the prepare. Yeah.

The trains are at all times going by in Nashville.

Simply bought to maintain it happening the podcast. It will add slightly little bit of colour and speaks to what I am speaking about. You realize, the trains are going by. The vehicles have NRA stickers. You realize, after I was a child, there have been Accomplice flags in all places. That is The South, y’all. It is completely different than the opposite components of the nation now, for higher or for worse. However it’s what it’s.

And once you’re round Nashville and you’ve got political conversations, wherever the particular person falls on the spectrum, inevitably somebody makes use of that phrase, Effectively, that is The South.

Like, that is alleged to cowl a number of issues.

Yeah. And whether or not it is alleged to be that means or, you realize, I believe we’re in a state of appreciable progress down south, however the vestiges stay, they usually’re vital to speak about on this regard, as a result of one of many vestiges is gun tradition, and it is largely thought of just like the insurgent flag prior to now, simply one thing that exists right here. Take care of it, y’all. When in reality, we now have at all times had the facility to drop the insurgent flag. There’s one vestige that has been challenged successfully.

And effected change in a method, or no less than elevate the form of societal stakes partaking in sure language.

Completely. And so I see the change in gun tradition is rather like one other step in direction of The South’s evolution.

To my thoughts, nation, Americana, these genres so intently align with their audiences. It’s totally very similar to hip-hop, like folks in hip-hop discuss concerning the tradition and their ties to the music, and the music ties to fairly actually the identification of the folks listening. And nation feels very a lot the identical means. However because of this, it has a number of like guidelines. You realize, there is a couple strains you they folks do not such as you to step out of. Are you able to speak about how that performs out in trendy nation?

Positive. Effectively, at present’s nation singer won’t come from The South and is school educated. So that they are in has already modified the stereotype of who sings nation music. You realize, it is it isn’t coal miners anymore. The coal miner’s daughter like all of us love Loretta, however that is not who’s on primary proper now. In order that a part of it has modified rather a lot. However what hasn’t modified a lot are the attitudes of the viewers.

Which to be clear. The nation music viewers is also wealthier and are determination makers and our usually managers, there’s been type of like a number of analysis into many people who find themselves within the viewers, and the viewers in all probability appears to be like slightly completely different than folks anticipate as nicely.

Effectively, I did not know to enter this, however however I am excited that we’re, Audie, as a result of, you realize, nation music actually particularly, and to make clear, up to date nation music on the radio is an actual secure house for us to not speak about political divisiveness and never speak about issues of of substance. However as a substitute we’re all type of studying the Pulp Fiction collectively. And it is it is

Which is why it is common, proper? I imply, throughout the pandemic, I heard the expansion of listening to the music or streaming possibly was up 15%. It was increased than another style.

Individuals welcome that secure house.

Journey story. It is you realize, it’s extremely a lot tales, intergenerational household tales. That is the form of stuff that goes primary is the music about grandpa and what a superb man he was and the way if we may very well be slightly bit extra like him, then the world can be a greater place. So this type of, you realize, hallmark form of these beliefs which can be tossed round won’t be that reasonable for at present’s actuality of, you realize, I labored I am a part of a worldwide economic system working two jobs. And, you realize, I am hoping my children are going to go get out of state tuition or no matter. And but we nation music actually offers in nostalgia. And that nostalgia is a an vital antidote to all the ache that one can witness within the click on of a mouse.

Proper. So how does gun. Tradition work together with that nostalgia, storytelling, since you’re saying in a means that that is constructed into the music, too.

Johnny Money singing I Shot a Man in Reno to Watch Him Die. Hank Jr Singing about. Yeah, I would wish to spit some seaside nut in that dude’s eye and shoot him with my previous 45 as a result of a rustic boy can survive. It is a method to for nation music to retain authority in a altering world. And guns–

However do you hear it within the trendy music? Are there? You do not have to select any artist. However do folks nonetheless speak about that?

No, Audie. And that is the factor. We do not speak about weapons. If we do, it is a music about I took my boy looking for the primary time. It is once more, dealing within the nostalgia. What it isn’t saying is I’ve bought an AR-15 in my assortment. However the actuality is that many, many listeners do. And but it is a secure house the place they don’t seem to be confronted by the music to a altering actuality. As a substitute, they’re allowed to say, I taught my little one how you can, you realize, I imply, after I was a child within the eighties, like I went chicken hunt with Dad, I discovered how you can fireplace a weapon. I discovered how you can clear a weapon. These items are vital to the ways in which gun tradition generally is a optimistic, however the secure house is that we’re not speaking about what it means in at present’s America. As a substitute, we’re just about hanging in yesterday’s.

So what’s it like for artists comparable to your self to boost this situation?

Individuals hold saying, thanks for being courageous. And I am like. You realize who’s courageous is the child that pulled the hearth alarm, you realize, within the hallway underneath gunfire in our city in a college, a child that was a 3rd grader. Now, that is courageous. All I am doing is simply I am a singer and I’ll sing concerning the stuff that is actual. I am a author, and I’ll inform what I see.

I do not wish to learn an excessive amount of into the zoom, however I. Are you getting emotional speaking about that?

Oh, yeah. I imply, I have been I have been crying for 2 weeks, ya’ll, prefer it’s… When this involves your city they usually bury the identical age child as yours. After which after which, like, whereas the graves are nonetheless recent, the information cycle strikes on to Stormy Daniels, and that is the fact. It is like, Good God, the place will we dwell? What will we not care about children in any respect? It is simply over. So that is my means of claiming it isn’t over and it will not be over till these deaths, these three deaths of American youngsters gunned down within the third grade, till they imply one thing, that is when it’s going to be over.

Extra with Ketch Secor in only a second.

You’re demanding a brand new form of motion come out of the south. And that it partly be led by people who find themselves cultural figures as nicely, not simply politicians, folks comparable to your self. Why do you suppose it may make a distinction?

Effectively, I believe that Nashville stands uniquely poised to guide a response to the college capturing epidemic.

However why do you suppose that? Proper? We simply watched the Tennessee State Home expel two members as a result of that they had a protest associated to gun coverage. Expel, not censure, not reprimand. Attempt to kick them out. So what what to your thoughts leads you to suppose that?

Effectively, Nashville, even if the state legislature is what it’s, Nashville is a really progressive metropolis. And I am not saying that Tennessee goes to paved the way. I am saying Nashville.

Yeah, however is not that the powerful half? If in all these states and it isn’t simply Tennessee, you have bought these blue cities, these little blue dots in a sea of pink, and by pink I imply very conservative, very pro-gun, pro-Second Modification legislatures. This feels like an uphill battle. What you are calling for.

And I do know it is value it. I do not wish to as a result of everyone knows it is value it. However I need I wish to perceive why you suppose nation musicians are in any means uniquely positioned to have this dialog.

Effectively, and I wish to I respect you difficult this Audie. Very first thing I wish to say is that altering segregation was an uphill battle in Tennessee. And and when Nashville within the early Nineteen Sixties, within the late Fifties mentioned its first foot ahead, this was the proving floor, different components of the South have been too unsafe. However folks gathered in Nashville, a metropolis of schools, a metropolis of progressive thought within the South to interact in nonviolent civil disobedience. That is the place John Lewis got here. That is the place the Freedom Riders first cease was.

Their trainings, proper, with James Lawson and at Vanderbilt.

All of that coaching at Fisk and Vanderbilt occurred proper right here in Nashville, Tennessee. That reveals our capability as a as a group to exist outdoors of the state. Now, identical to in that point, the state legislator mentioned, what are you speaking about? That is not going to occur in our state. We solid the deciding vote on on ladies’s suffrage. I imply, Tennessee has been a bellwether place in these two different cases of nice significance. That is the third. That is the a part of the dying knell of the previous South, which goes to have to alter. You realize, 50 years from now I believe we will be trying again at these couple of years because the deciding time for a assault weapons ban in the USA.

Once more, I wish to deliver it to the query about nation music artists, particularly mainstream ones who given what we all know concerning the music, primary, have been socially punished for activism by what we name Music Row, by music radio, by nation music radio specifically, which nonetheless has a really form of sturdy grip in a means programmers do, and even latest historical past. Proper. When you concentrate on the Dixie Chicks, and so on., their complete story is a narrative of being ostracized for his or her activism.

You realize, for a man like me, I am not beholden to too many individuals in any respect, however I am not a mainstream. I am not on the Jumbotron, you realize, I am not on the awards present with the highest ten performers of the yr.

Do you want these folks for the motion you are speaking about?

They’ve a extremely far attain and the facility to speed up an inevitable motion to alter this for our youngsters. And I am asking them by this piece and likewise head to head in my group, by conversations of textual content. You realize, I’ve reached out to so many singers prior to now two weeks.

And what sort of textual content you ship.

Hey, I am simply reaching out to all my Nashville music group within the wake of the capturing and sharing this story that I wrote that got here out at present in The Occasions. In the event you get a sec, please have a look.

What’s been probably the most optimistic response? What’s been probably the most irritating one?

Probably the most irritating one is silence. I say within the op ed piece that I believe silence is complicity. I went into the studio and I and I recorded a brand new music on the topic. Because the capturing, which is barely two weeks in the past there have been so some ways to be engaged with this horrible story, and it is highly effective answer.

I imply, the rationale why I am asking is as a result of your op ed mentioned one thing fairly particular, proper? That there are artists who’re drained at being on the form of mercy of the whims of fearmongers, you mentioned, and that they are prepared to talk to an impressionable viewers. And since different genres, like we talked about hip hop earlier or pop, they do wade into societal points. They are often confrontational about politics. It isn’t like there is not a mannequin on the market. So I assume what wouldn’t it take, do you suppose, for folks in your business? To begin to do one thing comparable, which is which is, in impact, what you are calling for.

It’s starting and it is, I believe, in its infancy, nevertheless it’s already began.

And so it is about fanning the flames and constructing an enormous bonfire out of what is already crackling kindling. For instance, we have got a profit live performance right here in Nashville that helps Covenant Faculty. And once you have a look at the the roster, who’s on the marquee, it isn’t the same old Americana of us who at all times say, you realize, we stand with children, we arise in opposition to gun violence. As a substitute, it is primary chart toppers. They’re there. They’ve put their hat into the ring.

However is it as a result of it is is it going to be a secure house from politics? If it is a second of a memorial, is that what makes it okay for an enormous artist to be there? Proper. As a result of no person’s going to rise up and say we should always have gun management.

There’s nothing however up right here as a result of we we now have began on the very baseline the place music popping out of Nashville on the radio says nothing about violence in opposition to youngsters in our faculties or about the necessity to rethink the kinds of weaponry that’s related to the Second Modification. Kelsea Ballerini talked about it on an award present. These are the sorts of issues that when someone takes one step and the motion can rapidly comply with it, then the subsequent step is not as laborious to make. And what I am asking for is that subsequent step. You realize, I’ve gotten a number of suggestions from my viewers. And like I say in an op ed piece, you realize, I see the NRA sticker on the again of lot of vehicles blaring in my tunes. So, you realize, and we’re out on the street with Hank Jr. this summer season. So, I imply, I am I am used to enjoying to an viewers that’s our nation folks. However I really like my nation folks viewers. And I and I need to have the ability to be actual with them. I can transfer freely in each of the areas that the 2 huge silos within the nation. Like, I’d go to work in a single silo and are available residence and the opposite one. And I am good with that as a result of I really like these folks.

What’s your message to these artists who’re simply nonetheless very reluctant?

Nation music has an incredible future in these occasions to swing out previous the fences which have corralled it in so tightly. That I consider on this style. And I consider that it has the facility to hold that reality. You realize, it’s extremely a lot rooted in a gospel custom of of the lamentation, the calling out to the good spirits. Assist us, Lord. We’re simply your youngsters. We do not know shit. We’re we’re dying down right here. Assist!

Are you able to discuss concerning the music that you’ve got written out of this second?

New materials? You realize, typically, identical to I am in a songwriting temper right here, I am in a a second in time with a number of completely different alternatives as a author to interact on this, whether or not it is, you realize, writing the appropriate caption for {a photograph} on Instagram or writing an op ed piece for The New York Occasions or being on this podcast with you, Audie. There’s so some ways to decide on my phrases proper now and attempt to have them be resonant for the ache that we’re feeling in Nashville, Tennessee and across the nation as a result of we’re simply so drained, dad and mom, that our youngsters usually are not secure of their faculties. What which means for me as a songwriter is that I even have the prospect to write down new music about this and to place my cash the place my mouth is. So I bought a brand new music that is popping out referred to as Louder Than Weapons. That is yeah, I simply recorded it two days in the past.

Give me a way of the tune or lyrics.

Effectively, gosh, I really feel like I should not even introduced it up as a result of it is so…anytime you get a you realize, individuals are cagey about their new stuff!

You are coping with a dude that wept by the entire songwriting course of. Let me sing it for you.

All proper. wakened this morning. It was Groundhog Day. I noticed the identical black veil on a crying face and a flag flying half means. This time it was folks I do know gunned down in a minute or so. Solely God is aware of when it’s going to cease. However ideas and prayers ain’t sufficient. Louder than weapons. Extra highly effective than bullets flying. Is the voice rising up saying it is about time to place the final nail within the coffin, put the final physique within the floor, calling on each city, shout. Louder than weapons There is a regulation on a dusty scroll.

Ketch Secor is the daddy of two children in Nashville, Tennessee. He is additionally a singer, songwriter and founding member of the band Outdated Crow Medication Present.

Now The Project is a manufacturing of CNN Audio. Our producers are Madeleine Thompson,Jennifer Lai, Lori Galarreta, Carla Javier, and Dan Bloom. Our affiliate producers are Isoke Samuel and Allison Park. Our senior producers are Matt Martinez and Haley Thomas. Dan Dzula is our technical director. Steve Lickteig is our govt producer. Particular due to Katie Hinman. I am Audie Cornish and thanks for listening.

I am the louder than weapons. oooooo. Louder than weapons. I do not wish to get up on one other Groundhog Day. No, I do not wish to hear one other rat a tat tat tat echoed down the hallway. Freedom’s simply one other phrase for letting each voice be heard, each coronary heart, each hand. Each city take a stand. Louder than weapons. Extra highly effective than bullets flying. Is the voice rising up, saying it is about rattling time. We put the final nail within the coffin. We put the final physique within the floor. I am calling on each city. Louder than weapons.

Sending that one out to Louisville at present.

Ketch, thanks a lot for sharing that with us.

Yeah, we bought. We bought to. We bought to do it, y’all.